A very delicate subject handled with delicacy. This is very much a spiritual problem as well as a secular one. Having said that, having been a British visitor over many years to some wonderful American campuses I have to say that the whole fraternity system stinks and is asking for trouble. Many of my best students here and in the USA over the past 29 years have been Independents who have not touched this disgustingly decadent culture with long barge poles. Fraternities are an institution whose time has surely gone whatever the truths or otherwise of events at Cornell.
It's a bold (risky?) choice to write on this and put yourself out there, Samuel. Some of what you've written I agree with (secular sexual ethic is broken), while some I do not (#Metoo was more valuable than you give it credit for). But as a dad of 2 daughters who attend state universities, I appreciate your efforts.
While there are things I vary on, I value your thoughts on this. It’s a needed perspective and conversation, and I recognize the work and wisdom that went into this.
And while I know it might not have been the purpose of this article, I do think you ended a bit short.
While I can follow your argument that hook up culture is rape culture, and the secular remedy is not enough, I think we have to keep facing the reality that as a church, we are unhealthy when it comes to sexual ethics. By that I mean, we have not and do not follow our head, Jesus, when it comes to how we respond and how we help those who have survived sexual abuse- regardless of the culture that has contributed to it.
Listen to the survivors- they repeatedly face shame, guilt, and condemnation. Most survivors would say they regret ever coming to the church with their stories of sexual assault. That is deplorable, and we have to see it as such.
I agree that other systems are broken, and we desperately need a hope filled remedy. And as believers, we have it!! But that means we also have to include ourselves in this conversation of ethics because we have desperately failed, and we are contributing to the problem rather than providing true life and healing.
Diane Langberg is a voice I value, and I would recommend learning further from her.
I do not understand the christians whose reaction to cornell 7 is to critique “secular ideology”, especially when the past decade has only revealed the rampant levels of sexual abuse in the SBC, ACNA, Catholic church and UMC.
There are two kinds of people who stay sick. Those who know they are sick but refuse to take their medicine, and those who don’t know they’re sick at all. Both groups are in a bad way, but you wouldn’t talk to them the same
The SBC has responded to their sex abuse crisis by diverting attention away from the perpetrators to a manufactured controversy over women talking about a sermon on a podcast. Seems like wanting to stay sick to me.
Your article made some really valid points, but imo your last paragraph should have stayed in a draft. It read, at least to me, like a typical "we have the answers" triumphalist manifesto. I'm hoping you didn't see this event as strictly a facilitation for such an act, but that is the note your article seemed to end on.
It's always interesting that one event on the other side of the aisle can be used to demonstrate the total failure of the opposition's ethic - but if I were to, as I did above, cite wrongdoing on the part of conservative evangelicals, I am almost certain you will immediately respond with "but not all conservatives", which would be correct, but consequently you would have to admit that not every instance of a progressive ethic inevitably leads to r*pe just because the cornell incident did. I am, by the way, not trying to defend modern hookup culture or promiscuity.
Evangelicalism is currently not in a position to argue that it has the solution to such a widespread issue when it can't keep its own house in order. Maybe if we can go, like, six months without having another "Death of a Pastor's Wife" hit streaming services?
This analogy might work, if churches really start to hold ppl accountable, but I do think you should add an epilogue to the piece discussing SA within churches. It’s too big of a problem and an obvious counterargument to your piece.
Maybe a part 2: is there a Christian remedy for rape culture?
Because theologically you’re totally right but practically we are not doing anyyy better. Why is that?
My initial thought was your question too ("Is that true?"), but it does seem that the community with the loudest voices on sexual morality house some of the biggest offenders.
So I guess I'm more sympathetic to Whitney's rationale when, say, Steven Lawson is publishing a book two years after having an affair with a former student, and when the Roys Report is routinely posting news articles on church leaders convicted for SA.
Yes, but the question has to be asked "is sexual assault within churches happening because of homegrown issues, or is it because predators go where they can get prey, or both?"
Does the concept of consent - that women and men, for that matter, have a choice in how they engage someone else sexually, that their bodies, and their consciences, are owed personal agency - fit into the alternative Christian remedy to rape culture? In many years of youth group I never once heard about consent. I don't know if that's because consent at the time wasn't part of broader mainstream conversation (this was 20+ years ago), or that in a Christian context consent wouldn't be needed, because good Christian girls wouldn't find themselves in a situation anyway where they needed to speak up and say no, or that consent isn't important in marriage because your bodies belong to each other and wives make themselves available to their husbands sexually whether they want to or not. I'm merely speculating about the absence, here and in your piece. If the secular remedy to rape culture is doomed, how does consent fit if at all into the traditional Christian remedy?
The short answer is yes. The long answer is yes, but.
Christianity would teach that love of neighbor requires doing only to them what you would have them do to you. Moreover, the command to “do nothing from selfish ambition or conceit, but in humility consider others better than yourselves,” rule out forcing yourself on anyone.
The question is whether this is different from “consent” as it is commonly used in non-Christian circles. For example, what complicates the Christian framework as it might be lived out on a college campus is that fornication, even if “consenusal” (e.g., agreed to), is sin, therefore harmful. When two people commit that sin, they are sinning against each other, and therefore harming each other, even if neither believe that is happening. So all sin is a violation of consent in the sense that we never knowingly would consent to our harm, but we do consent to sin.
I think the tension comes from the fact that secular consent ethics makes consent downstream from personal autonomy, while Christianity cannot agree with that. That makes Christian consent qualitatively different.
What do you mean when you say a “man’s sexual cycle?” It sounds like you might be saying “men need a regular release sexually” … which sounds like you’re claiming men have no control over our penises? I didn’t like this post … but this was one of the more problematic elements.
I think this is something to consider: how long can one go and then decide that it was rape? Both parties made choices. Choosing to become inebriated allows loss of control to be come a factor.
This is a very bold essay and I applaud you for writing it. I hope everyone on the comment section engages thoughtfully and without vitriol and anger. While this case was going crazy in the news cycle in Cornell and here in the US- across the globe in a public park in New Delhi a young student was forcibly dragged into the bushes and raped by 3 men- the park was outside her college grounds and it was evening not late , she was not drunk or on drugs and her only fault was walking back home after college through the park pathway. Without the effect of alcohol and drugs young men assault young women in India especially Delhi almost every month. Women (even me as a young teen) are taught to be modest, cover up and stay away from secluded places and always try to be home before dark. The police do punish these men but the assaults are often so brutal to young innocent girls who truly do nothing wrong. My heart is broken for Jane Doe but consent is not even a word used in the Indian legal system and rarely comes up!
Women even the best of feminists are taught to be careful around brutal men. The land of the Kama Sutra has a horrible view of sex. Indian men are being raised better now but Indian women are always warned and raised to not be temptresses. The concept of drinking and have two guys does not go through thr mind of an average 20 year old college student!
And there is no court of public opinion which will help this young student - all of India knows her name and there will always be people who
Will blame her.
Your essay highlights important points about our culture today where everything is an extreme and people need to take sides. And then everyone attacks each other.
How many of us on this comment thread have a niece , daughter or granddaughter or family friend who is 20- would we sit her down and teach her consent before she left for sophomore year of college or would we encourage her to find other activities to have fun and even to party but in a safe way? What crossed this young lady’s mind when she decided to drink do drugs
And sleep with two men? I wonder if she had a friend or mentor. And that makes me sad knowing perhaps she had no one.
A 20 year old man filled with booze drugs and testosterone would be so crazy and strong! It would be so hard for a girl to fight him off.
These men need to be held accountable but the culture or college culture needs to change.
Although I disagree, I truly appreciate your thoughts here. So thank you for this. The whole thing is just so difficult to work through on every layer. Your paragraph towards the top about what causes people to allow traumatic things to happen has given words to what I've been trying to process as I think through all that it going on, and I'm grateful.
This is very well written, thank you. I’ve been having the same thoughts & doing my best to articulate them, but you just parsed it out so beautifully. We don’t understand assault beyond consent or non consent. But the truth is, promiscuity *is* and assault on our souls, bodies & hearts. Especially to this level. So whether she consented or not, what happened was deeply harmful to her and she will likely be dealing with it inside herself for many years.
A very delicate subject handled with delicacy. This is very much a spiritual problem as well as a secular one. Having said that, having been a British visitor over many years to some wonderful American campuses I have to say that the whole fraternity system stinks and is asking for trouble. Many of my best students here and in the USA over the past 29 years have been Independents who have not touched this disgustingly decadent culture with long barge poles. Fraternities are an institution whose time has surely gone whatever the truths or otherwise of events at Cornell.
It's a bold (risky?) choice to write on this and put yourself out there, Samuel. Some of what you've written I agree with (secular sexual ethic is broken), while some I do not (#Metoo was more valuable than you give it credit for). But as a dad of 2 daughters who attend state universities, I appreciate your efforts.
While there are things I vary on, I value your thoughts on this. It’s a needed perspective and conversation, and I recognize the work and wisdom that went into this.
And while I know it might not have been the purpose of this article, I do think you ended a bit short.
While I can follow your argument that hook up culture is rape culture, and the secular remedy is not enough, I think we have to keep facing the reality that as a church, we are unhealthy when it comes to sexual ethics. By that I mean, we have not and do not follow our head, Jesus, when it comes to how we respond and how we help those who have survived sexual abuse- regardless of the culture that has contributed to it.
Listen to the survivors- they repeatedly face shame, guilt, and condemnation. Most survivors would say they regret ever coming to the church with their stories of sexual assault. That is deplorable, and we have to see it as such.
I agree that other systems are broken, and we desperately need a hope filled remedy. And as believers, we have it!! But that means we also have to include ourselves in this conversation of ethics because we have desperately failed, and we are contributing to the problem rather than providing true life and healing.
Diane Langberg is a voice I value, and I would recommend learning further from her.
I do not understand the christians whose reaction to cornell 7 is to critique “secular ideology”, especially when the past decade has only revealed the rampant levels of sexual abuse in the SBC, ACNA, Catholic church and UMC.
There are two kinds of people who stay sick. Those who know they are sick but refuse to take their medicine, and those who don’t know they’re sick at all. Both groups are in a bad way, but you wouldn’t talk to them the same
The SBC has responded to their sex abuse crisis by diverting attention away from the perpetrators to a manufactured controversy over women talking about a sermon on a podcast. Seems like wanting to stay sick to me.
Your article made some really valid points, but imo your last paragraph should have stayed in a draft. It read, at least to me, like a typical "we have the answers" triumphalist manifesto. I'm hoping you didn't see this event as strictly a facilitation for such an act, but that is the note your article seemed to end on.
It's always interesting that one event on the other side of the aisle can be used to demonstrate the total failure of the opposition's ethic - but if I were to, as I did above, cite wrongdoing on the part of conservative evangelicals, I am almost certain you will immediately respond with "but not all conservatives", which would be correct, but consequently you would have to admit that not every instance of a progressive ethic inevitably leads to r*pe just because the cornell incident did. I am, by the way, not trying to defend modern hookup culture or promiscuity.
Evangelicalism is currently not in a position to argue that it has the solution to such a widespread issue when it can't keep its own house in order. Maybe if we can go, like, six months without having another "Death of a Pastor's Wife" hit streaming services?
This analogy might work, if churches really start to hold ppl accountable, but I do think you should add an epilogue to the piece discussing SA within churches. It’s too big of a problem and an obvious counterargument to your piece.
Maybe a part 2: is there a Christian remedy for rape culture?
Because theologically you’re totally right but practically we are not doing anyyy better. Why is that?
"But practically we are not doing any better."
Is that true?
My initial thought was your question too ("Is that true?"), but it does seem that the community with the loudest voices on sexual morality house some of the biggest offenders.
So I guess I'm more sympathetic to Whitney's rationale when, say, Steven Lawson is publishing a book two years after having an affair with a former student, and when the Roys Report is routinely posting news articles on church leaders convicted for SA.
Yes, but the question has to be asked "is sexual assault within churches happening because of homegrown issues, or is it because predators go where they can get prey, or both?"
Does the concept of consent - that women and men, for that matter, have a choice in how they engage someone else sexually, that their bodies, and their consciences, are owed personal agency - fit into the alternative Christian remedy to rape culture? In many years of youth group I never once heard about consent. I don't know if that's because consent at the time wasn't part of broader mainstream conversation (this was 20+ years ago), or that in a Christian context consent wouldn't be needed, because good Christian girls wouldn't find themselves in a situation anyway where they needed to speak up and say no, or that consent isn't important in marriage because your bodies belong to each other and wives make themselves available to their husbands sexually whether they want to or not. I'm merely speculating about the absence, here and in your piece. If the secular remedy to rape culture is doomed, how does consent fit if at all into the traditional Christian remedy?
The short answer is yes. The long answer is yes, but.
Christianity would teach that love of neighbor requires doing only to them what you would have them do to you. Moreover, the command to “do nothing from selfish ambition or conceit, but in humility consider others better than yourselves,” rule out forcing yourself on anyone.
The question is whether this is different from “consent” as it is commonly used in non-Christian circles. For example, what complicates the Christian framework as it might be lived out on a college campus is that fornication, even if “consenusal” (e.g., agreed to), is sin, therefore harmful. When two people commit that sin, they are sinning against each other, and therefore harming each other, even if neither believe that is happening. So all sin is a violation of consent in the sense that we never knowingly would consent to our harm, but we do consent to sin.
I think the tension comes from the fact that secular consent ethics makes consent downstream from personal autonomy, while Christianity cannot agree with that. That makes Christian consent qualitatively different.
What do you mean when you say a “man’s sexual cycle?” It sounds like you might be saying “men need a regular release sexually” … which sounds like you’re claiming men have no control over our penises? I didn’t like this post … but this was one of the more problematic elements.
I think this is something to consider: how long can one go and then decide that it was rape? Both parties made choices. Choosing to become inebriated allows loss of control to be come a factor.
https://youtu.be/cjeSeUkMU3Q?is=tyDi6p93wN04ZNs7
This was well done, and I appreciated it.
This is a very bold essay and I applaud you for writing it. I hope everyone on the comment section engages thoughtfully and without vitriol and anger. While this case was going crazy in the news cycle in Cornell and here in the US- across the globe in a public park in New Delhi a young student was forcibly dragged into the bushes and raped by 3 men- the park was outside her college grounds and it was evening not late , she was not drunk or on drugs and her only fault was walking back home after college through the park pathway. Without the effect of alcohol and drugs young men assault young women in India especially Delhi almost every month. Women (even me as a young teen) are taught to be modest, cover up and stay away from secluded places and always try to be home before dark. The police do punish these men but the assaults are often so brutal to young innocent girls who truly do nothing wrong. My heart is broken for Jane Doe but consent is not even a word used in the Indian legal system and rarely comes up!
Women even the best of feminists are taught to be careful around brutal men. The land of the Kama Sutra has a horrible view of sex. Indian men are being raised better now but Indian women are always warned and raised to not be temptresses. The concept of drinking and have two guys does not go through thr mind of an average 20 year old college student!
And there is no court of public opinion which will help this young student - all of India knows her name and there will always be people who
Will blame her.
Your essay highlights important points about our culture today where everything is an extreme and people need to take sides. And then everyone attacks each other.
How many of us on this comment thread have a niece , daughter or granddaughter or family friend who is 20- would we sit her down and teach her consent before she left for sophomore year of college or would we encourage her to find other activities to have fun and even to party but in a safe way? What crossed this young lady’s mind when she decided to drink do drugs
And sleep with two men? I wonder if she had a friend or mentor. And that makes me sad knowing perhaps she had no one.
A 20 year old man filled with booze drugs and testosterone would be so crazy and strong! It would be so hard for a girl to fight him off.
These men need to be held accountable but the culture or college culture needs to change.
Thank you for writing this!
Although I disagree, I truly appreciate your thoughts here. So thank you for this. The whole thing is just so difficult to work through on every layer. Your paragraph towards the top about what causes people to allow traumatic things to happen has given words to what I've been trying to process as I think through all that it going on, and I'm grateful.
This is very well written, thank you. I’ve been having the same thoughts & doing my best to articulate them, but you just parsed it out so beautifully. We don’t understand assault beyond consent or non consent. But the truth is, promiscuity *is* and assault on our souls, bodies & hearts. Especially to this level. So whether she consented or not, what happened was deeply harmful to her and she will likely be dealing with it inside herself for many years.
I reject the premise that there is any rape culture in the united states. Pakistan, yes probably, but not in the US. Not yet, anyway.